Cle. That is very good Stranger; but I wish you would tell me moreclearly what you mean.
Ath. O Cleinias, many things of old time were well said and sung;and the saying about the Fates was one of them.
Cle. What is it?
Ath. The saying that Lachesis or the giver of the lots is thefirst of them, and that Clotho or the spinster is the second ofthem, and that Atropos or the unchanging one is the third of them; andthat she is the preserver of the things which we have spoken, andwhich have been compared in a figure to things woven by fire, theyboth (i.e., Atropos and the fire) producing the quality ofunchangeableness. I am speaking of the things which in a state andgovernment give not only health and salvation to the body, but law, orrather preservation of the law, in the soul; and, if I am notmistaken, this seems to be still wanting in our laws: we have still tosee how we can implant in them this irreversible nature.
Cle. It will be no small matter if we can only discover how such anature can be implanted in anything.
Ath. But it certainly can be; so much I clearly see.
Cle. Then let us not think of desisting until we have impartedthis quality to our laws; for it is ridiculous, after a great dealof labour has been spent, to place a thing at last on an insecurefoundation.
Megillus. I approve of your suggestion, and am quite of the samemind with you.
Cle. Very good: And now what, according to you, is to be thesalvation of our government and of our laws, and how is it to beeffected?
Ath. Were we not saying that there must be in our city a councilwhich was to be of this sort:-The ten oldest guardians of the law, andall those who have obtained prizes of virtue, were to meet in the sameassembly, and the council was also to include those who had visitedforeign countries in the hope of hearing something that might be ofuse in the preservation of the laws, and who, having come safely home,and having been tested in these same matters, had proved themselves tobe worthy to take part in the assembly;-each of the members was toselect some young man of not less than thirty years of age, he himselfjudging in the, first instance whether the young man was worthy bynature and education, and then suggesting him to the others, and if heseemed to them also to be worthy they were to adopt him; but if not,the decision at which they arrived was to be kept a secret from thecitizens at large; and, more especially, from the rejectedcandidate. The meeting of the council was to be held early in themorning, when everybody was most at leisure from all other business,whether public or private-was not something of this sort said by usbefore?
Cle. True.
Ath. Then, returning to the council, I would say further, that if welet it down to be the anchor of the state, our city, having everythingwhich is suitable to her, will preserve all that we wish to preserve.
Cle. What do you mean?
Ath. Now is the time for me to speak the truth in all earnestness.
Cle. Well said, and I hope that you will fulfil your intention.
Ath. Know, Cleinias, that everything, in all that it does, has anatural saviour, as of an animal the soul and the head are the chiefsaviours.
Cle. Once more, what do you mean?
Ath. The well-being of those two is obviously the preservation ofevery living thing.
Cle. How is that?
Ath. The soul, besides other things, contains mind, and the head,besides other things, contains sight and hearing; and the mind,mingling with the noblest of the senses, and becoming one with them,may be truly called the salvation of all.
Cle. Yes, Quite so.
Ath. Yes, indeed; but with what is that intellect concerned which,mingling with the senses, is the salvation of ships in storms aswell as in fair weather? In a ship, when the pilot and the sailorsunite their perceptions with the piloting mind, do they not saveboth themselves and their craft?
Cle. Very true.
Ath. We do not want many illustrations about such matters:-Whataim would the general of an army, or what aim would a physicianpropose to himself, if he were seeking to attain salvation?
Cle. Very good.
Ath. Does not the general aim at victory and superiority in war, anddo not the physician and his assistants aim at producing health in thebody?
Cle. Certainly.
Ath. And a physician who is ignorant about the body, that is to say,who knows not that which we just now called health, or a general whoknows not victory, or any others who are ignorant of the particularsof the arts which we mentioned, cannot be said to have understandingabout any of these matters.
Cle. They cannot.
Ath. And what would you say of the state? If a person proves to beignorant of the aim to which the statesman should look, ought he, inthe first place, to be called a ruler at all; further, will he ever beable to preserve that of which he does not even know the aim?
Cle. Impossible.
Ath. And therefore, if our settlement of the country is to beperfect, we ought to have some institution, which, as I was saying,will tell what is the aim of the state, and will inform us how weare to attain this, and what law or what man will advise us to thatend. Any state which has no such institution is likely to be devoid ofmind and sense, and in all her actions will proceed by mere chance.
Cle. Very true.
Ath. In which, then, of the parts or institutions of the state isany such guardian power to be found? Can we say?
Cle. I am not quite certain, Stranger; but I have a suspicion thatyou are referring to the assembly which you just now said was tomeet at night.
Ath. You understand me perfectly, Cleinias; and we must assume, asthe argument iniplies, that this council possesses all virtue; and thebeginning of virtue is not to make mistakes by guessing many things,but to look steadily at one thing, and on this to fix all our aims.
Cle. Quite true.