Ath. I think that we must begin again as before, and firstconsider the habit of courage; and then we will go on and discussanother and then another form of virtue, if you please. In this way weshall have a model of the whole; and with these and similar discourseswe will beguile the way. And when we have gone through all thevirtues, we will show, by the grace of God, that the institutions ofwhich I was speaking look to virtue.
Meg. Very good; and suppose that you first criticize this praiser ofZeus and the laws of Crete.
Ath. I will try to criticize you and myself, as well as him, for theargument is a common concern. Tell me-were not first the syssitia, andsecondly the gymnasia, invented by your legislator with a view to war?
Meg. Yes.
Ath. And what comes third, and what fourth? For that, I think, isthe sort of enumeration which ought to be made of the remainingparts of virtue, no matter whether you call them parts or what theirname is, provided the meaning is clear.
Meg. Then I, or any other Lacedaemonian, would reply that hunting isthird in order.
Ath. Let us see if we can discover what comes fourth and fifth.
Meg. I think that I can get as far as the fouth head, which is thefrequent endurance of pain, exhibited among us Spartans in certainhand-to-hand fights; also in stealing with the prospect of getting agood beating; there is, too, the so-called Crypteia, or secretservice, in which wonderful endurance is shown-our people wanderover the whole country by day and by night, and even in winter havenot a shoe to their foot, and are without beds to lie upon, and haveto attend upon themselves. Marvellous, too, is the endurance which ourcitizens show in their naked exercises, contending against the violentsummer heat; and there are many similar practices, to speak of whichin detail would be endless.
Ath. Excellent, O Lacedaemonian Stranger. But how ought we to definecourage? Is it to be regarded only as a combat against fears andpains, or also against desires and pleasures, and againstflatteries; which exercise such a tremendous power, that they make thehearts even of respectable citizens to melt like wax?
Meg. I should say the latter.
Ath. In what preceded, as you will remember, our Cnosian friendwas speaking of a man or a city being inferior to themselves:-Were younot, Cleinias?
Cle. I was.
Ath. Now, which is in the truest sense inferior, the man who isovercome by pleasure or by pain?
Cle. I should say the man who is overcome by pleasure; for all mendeem him to be inferior in a more disgraceful sense, than the otherwho is overcome by pain.
Ath. But surely the lawgivers of Crete and Lacedaemon have notlegislated for a courage which is lame of one leg, able only to meetattacks which come from the left, but impotent against the insidiousflatteries which come from the right?
Cle. Able to meet both, I should say.
Ath. Then let me once more ask, what institutions have you in eitherof your states which give a taste of pleasures, and do not avoidthem any more than they avoid pains; but which set a person in themidst of them, and compel or induce him by the prospect of reward toget the better of them? Where is an ordinance about pleasure similarto that about pain to be found in your laws? Tell me what there isof this nature among you:-What is there which makes your citizenequally brave against pleasure and pain, conquering what they ought toconquer, and superior to the enemies who are most dangerous andnearest home?
Meg. I was able to tell you, Stranger, many laws which were directedagainst pain; but I do not know that I can point out any great orobvious examples of similar institutions which are concerned withpleasure; there are some lesser provisions, however, which I mightmention.
Cle. Neither can I show anything of that sort which is at allequally prominent in the Cretan laws.
Ath. No wonder, my dear friends; and if, as is very likely, in oursearch after the true and good, one of us may have to censure the lawsof the others, we must not be offended, but take kindly what anothersays.
Cle. You are quite right, Athenian Stranger, and we will do as yousay.
Ath. At our time of life, Cleinias, there should be no feeling ofirritation.
Cle. Certainly not.
Ath. I will not at present determine whether he who censures theCretan or Lacedaemonian polities is right or wrong. But I believe thatI can tell better than either of you what the many say about them. Forassuming that you have reasonably good laws, one of the best of themwill be the law forbidding any young men to enquire which of themare right or wrong; but with one mouth and one voice they must allagree that the laws are all good, for they came from God; and anyone who says the contrary is not to be listened to. But an old man whoremarks any defect in your laws may communicate his observation to aruler or to an equal in years when no young man is present.
Cle. Exactly so, Stranger; and like a diviner, although not there atthe time, you seem to me quite to have hit the meaning of thelegislator, and to say what is most true.
Ath. As there are no young men present, and the legislator has givenold men free licence, there will be no impropriety in our discussingthese very matters now that we are alone.
Cle. True. And therefore you may be as free as you like in yourcensure of our laws, for there is no discredit in knowing what iswrong; he who receives what is said in a generous and friendlyspirit will be all the better for it.